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Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start [SOLVED!] - Printable Version

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Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start [SOLVED!] - Zefek - 01-Feb-2014 09:30 PM

I looked for some related topic but I didn't found this.

I have Clio 1.5dci and I have problem with start. If weather is cold I must starting very long. I checked glow plug but there is not problem. There are days when engine starts perfectly and there are days when engine starts difficult with longer starting. One day temperature was -6°C and engine started perfectly. Another day was -6°C and engine start difficult.

I watched some values in diagnostics and I think it is alright. Pressure of fuel (diesel) is about 300 bars. I have watched this engine starts when pressure of fuel is above 120 bars. It takes maximum two seconds until value of pressure is above 120 bars from start.
I meassured injectors by back fuel flow. All injectors had values about 25ml. I meassured this values by diagnostics manual and Clip.
So I think there is no problem on high pressure components.

One day temperature was about -15°C. I didn't start. Engine has been started longer so I discharged battery. Next day I want to have certainty that engine start so I connect minus terminal on battery with engine by starting cable. It started on second. I thought there is problem with connection between engine and vehicle body. In spite of connection between engine and battery another day engine started longer. I think there is not problem with this.

But I heard how starter of engine speed up and engine started in next second.

I think it is very interesting problem. There is not problem in cold weather only. When engine is very hot (about 90-100°C) I have problem with start too. I must hold key longer. But I hear how to engine wants to start. But when I release too early key engine stalls.

It seems as limited among of fuel for start. I read some articles. Then I read NT4282A. There is description of difficult starting problem. There is something about changing injectors, fuel pressure actuator and reprogramation. There is not classical reprogramation because CD with reprogramation is attached to new injectors.
I looked at our engine and this article. It seems I can make reprog by this CD. But I want to ask if somebody deal with this problem of difficult engine start in Clio II, Kango with engine K9K 700.

Thanks for your answers.


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - mktandb - 01-Feb-2014 09:38 PM

You need to measure the return rate of injectors properly with bottles. Sounds like this may be the fault as you have seen live data of dual pressure low.


RE: Clio 1.5dci difficult start - Coriducu - 01-Feb-2014 09:46 PM

(01-Feb-2014 09:30 PM)Zefek Wrote:  I looked for some related topic but I didn't found this.

I have Clio 1.5dci and I have problem with start. If weather is cold I must starting very long. I checked glow plug but there is not problem. There are days when engine starts perfectly and there are days when engine starts difficult with longer starting. One day temperature was -6°C and engine started perfectly. Another day was -6°C and engine start difficult.

I watched some values in diagnostics and I think it is alright. Pressure of fuel (diesel) is about 300 bars. I have watched this engine starts when pressure of fuel is above 120 bars. It takes maximum two seconds until value of pressure is above 120 bars from start.
I meassured injectors by back fuel flow. All injectors had values about 25ml. I meassured this values by diagnostics manual and Clip.
So I think there is no problem on high pressure components.

One day temperature was about -15°C. I didn't start. Engine has been started longer so I discharged battery. Next day I want to have certainty that engine start so I connect minus terminal on battery with engine by starting cable. It started on second. I thought there is problem with connection between engine and vehicle body. In spite of connection between engine and battery another day engine started longer. I think there is not problem with this.

But I heard how starter of engine speed up and engine started in next second.

I think it is very interesting problem. There is not problem in cold weather only. When engine is very hot (about 90-100°C) I have problem with start too. I must hold key longer. But I hear how to engine wants to start. But when I release too early key engine stalls.

It seems as limited among of fuel for start. I read some articles. Then I read NT4282A. There is description of difficult starting problem. There is something about changing injectors, fuel pressure actuator and reprogramation. There is not classical reprogramation because CD with reprogramation is attached to new injectors.
I looked at our engine and this article. It seems I can make reprog by this CD. But I want to ask if somebody deal with this problem of difficult engine start in Clio II, Kango with engine K9K 700.

Thanks for your answers.

As other colleague told you already, your problem seems to be injectors, so try and make a proper evaluation with bottles for back leakage, not with any diag tool + try to see what you can find in fuel filter and fuel tank, cause is known problems for Delphi injector pumps. After try ans watch ify ou can see air in fuel pipes it may be the manual pump or some O-rings along fuel line. I have same problem few days ago on my Megane with same engine.


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - Zefek - 01-Feb-2014 10:37 PM

I'm sorry, it my mistake. I measured back leackege (back flow fuel) of injectors with botles. But I used method described in diagnostics manual - connect botles to injector back flow plug, etc ... And then I worked with Clip where I started command for high pressure sealing test. It is described in manual. I kept procedure in manual (it's technical note 3845A). Engine made four acceleration into 4000 rpm. As result in botles have been 25ml of fuel. Maximum fuel in botles is 35ml by manual. There was difference about 3ml between among of fuel in botles. I think injectors are OK.

When I discharged battery by long starting I had failure in injection computer as failure of speed sensor. I think it is result of low voltage. I read context of failure and there was pressure of fuel about 440 bars. It doesn't seem as injectors failure. But engine speed was only 50rpm. But I think if temperature was -15°C then engine speed cannot be higher.

But as I wrote I have problem even engine is hot, sometimes in summer. It's different because I can hear how engine wants to start - I hear fuel firing. But it seems as low fuel for engine start because when I hear it and I release key then engine stalls (not start). I must keep key longer. So injectors inject fuel into chamber.


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - Coriducu - 01-Feb-2014 11:38 PM

(01-Feb-2014 10:37 PM)Zefek Wrote:  I'm sorry, it my mistake. I measured back leackege (back flow fuel) of injectors with botles. But I used method described in diagnostics manual - connect botles to injector back flow plug, etc ... And then I worked with Clip where I started command for high pressure sealing test. It is described in manual. I kept procedure in manual (it's technical note 3845A). Engine made four acceleration into 4000 rpm. As result in botles have been 25ml of fuel. Maximum fuel in botles is 35ml by manual. There was difference about 3ml between among of fuel in botles. I think injectors are OK.

When I discharged battery by long starting I had failure in injection computer as failure of speed sensor. I think it is result of low voltage. I read context of failure and there was pressure of fuel about 440 bars. It doesn't seem as injectors failure. But engine speed was only 50rpm. But I think if temperature was -15°C then engine speed cannot be higher.

But as I wrote I have problem even engine is hot, sometimes in summer. It's different because I can hear how engine wants to start - I hear fuel firing. But it seems as low fuel for engine start because when I hear it and I release key then engine stalls (not start). I must keep key longer. So injectors inject fuel into chamber.

In this case try the other way I described you, checking hand pump (there is a one way valve,wen is broken you lose fuel continuity) + check fuel pipes, cause entire fuel line is made by 3 or 4 pieces and connectors are O ring based and if one of this O ring is broken then you may have air in fuel, but this can be seen if you check careful pipes wen engine is running, as they are transparent. It happened to me few time ago, and just replacing one O ring I fix the problem.
Good luck! beer


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - teris - 02-Feb-2014 12:22 AM

(01-Feb-2014 10:37 PM)Zefek Wrote:  I'm sorry, it my mistake. I measured back leackege (back flow fuel) of injectors with botles. But I used method described in diagnostics manual - connect botles to injector back flow plug, etc ... And then I worked with Clip where I started command for high pressure sealing test. It is described in manual. I kept procedure in manual (it's technical note 3845A). Engine made four acceleration into 4000 rpm. As result in botles have been 25ml of fuel. Maximum fuel in botles is 35ml by manual. There was difference about 3ml between among of fuel in botles. I think injectors are OK.

When I discharged battery by long starting I had failure in injection computer as failure of speed sensor. I think it is result of low voltage. I read context of failure and there was pressure of fuel about 440 bars. It doesn't seem as injectors failure. But engine speed was only 50rpm. But I think if temperature was -15°C then engine speed cannot be higher.

But as I wrote I have problem even engine is hot, sometimes in summer. It's different because I can hear how engine wants to start - I hear fuel firing. But it seems as low fuel for engine start because when I hear it and I release key then engine stalls (not start). I must keep key longer. So injectors inject fuel into chamber.
You have air in your system... I had the same problem... I replace all O rings everywhere!!!


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - admiral - 02-Feb-2014 01:45 AM

To measure the return of the injector,,,, remove the cables from the injectors, connecting four transparent tubes,,,, with 4mm diameter,,,, ver starter at work,,,, after 20-30 seconds flat in the pipes must have not more than 50 mm diesel,,, if there is more than that,,,, then check it Injector:cool:if the RPM number is very low ,,,,, check the battery,,, together with the starter,,,, check the phase sensor,(camshaft) and the sensor crancshaft,,,,,,,,,,tmi


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - mauro2k4mza - 02-Feb-2014 07:12 AM

You probably have air, you may also check injectors return and phase sensor.


Re: RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - Ginocar - 02-Feb-2014 01:54 PM

(01-Feb-2014 09:30 PM)Zefek Wrote:  I looked for some related topic but I didn't found this.

I have Clio 1.5dci and I have problem with start. If weather is cold I must starting very long. I checked glow plug but there is not problem. There are days when engine starts perfectly and there are days when engine starts difficult with longer starting. One day temperature was -6°C and engine started perfectly. Another day was -6°C and engine start difficult.

I watched some values in diagnostics and I think it is alright. Pressure of fuel (diesel) is about 300 bars. I have watched this engine starts when pressure of fuel is above 120 bars. It takes maximum two seconds until value of pressure is above 120 bars from start.
I meassured injectors by back fuel flow. All injectors had values about 25ml. I meassured this values by diagnostics manual and Clip.
So I think there is no problem on high pressure components.

One day temperature was about -15°C. I didn't start. Engine has been started longer so I discharged battery. Next day I want to have certainty that engine start so I connect minus terminal on battery with engine by starting cable. It started on second. I thought there is problem with connection between engine and vehicle body. In spite of connection between engine and battery another day engine started longer. I think there is not problem with this.

But I heard how starter of engine speed up and engine started in next second.

I think it is very interesting problem. There is not problem in cold weather only. When engine is very hot (about 90-100°C) I have problem with start too. I must hold key longer. But I hear how to engine wants to start. But when I release too early key engine stalls.

It seems as limited among of fuel for start. I read some articles. Then I read NT4282A. There is description of difficult starting problem. There is something about changing injectors, fuel pressure actuator and reprogramation. There is not classical reprogramation because CD with reprogramation is attached to new injectors.
I looked at our engine and this article. It seems I can make reprog by this CD. But I want to ask if somebody deal with this problem of difficult engine start in Clio II, Kango with engine K9K 700.

Thanks for your answers.

Hi Zefek,

You can to take back the default adaptation value with Renault Clip. Ones this method was help my hard start problem on the Renault Thalia 1.5DCI.


RE: Renault Clio 1.5 DCi Hard Start - Zefek - 03-Feb-2014 10:19 AM

(02-Feb-2014 01:45 AM)admiral Wrote:  To measure the return of the injector,,,, remove the cables from the injectors, connecting four transparent tubes,,,, with 4mm diameter,,,, ver starter at work,,,, after 20-30 seconds flat in the pipes must have not more than 50 mm diesel,,, if there is more than that,,,, then check it Injector:cool:if the RPM number is very low ,,,,, check the battery,,, together with the starter,,,, check the phase sensor,(camshaft) and the sensor crancshaft,,,,,,,,,,tmi
I don't deal with problem that engine doesn't start but I have problem engine starts difficulty. It means I must keep key on starting possition longer. Start takes about 10-15 seconds. I watched values on diagnostics and It takes first two second until fuel pressure is above 120 bars. In next second (third second) fuel pressure grows very rapidly into 350 bars and this value takes over starting phase (next 7-12 second). Then some value changes because engine starts perfectly.

Because there is problem with difficult start of engine I can start engine. But it takes longer. When engine runs I can measure back flow. This flow is alright for all injectors. I think if engine makes acceleration into 4000 rpm by diagnostics (procedure as I wrote) it can raise pressure of fuel into maximum (above 1080 bars). I think if back fuel flow is allright when there is maximum fuel pressure then back fuel flow must be allright if fuel pressure is lower (i.e. when I must start longer and pressure is abou 400 bars). Because there is rule more pressure, more fuel in back flow.

Edit...

(02-Feb-2014 07:12 AM)mauro2k4mza Wrote:  You probably have air, you may also check injectors return and phase sensor.
I looked for some bubbles in transparent pipes. There is one bubble in supply pipe of fuel filter. But I read that all cars have this bubble. I think fuel doesn't fall back to tank because there is fuel between hand pump and fuel filter. Pipe is full of fuel with small stable bubble. This bubble doesn't move when engine runs. There are not any small bubbles moving through fuel pipes.

But I think there is problem with starting circuit. Because when I connected minus terminal on battery with engine by starting cable it seemed as engine has more rpm - starter runs faster. There is no problem when engine starts and is running. Engine runs perfectly without some misfiring or something else.
But there is one exception. When turns of engine are about 1700rpm there is small and quickly twitching. It is depend on possition of acceleration pedal. If I push pedal a little more it stops and engine accelerates perfectly. Same as if I return my leg a bit back (very gently release my leg) it stops and engine runs perfectly. I cleaned EGR, checked injection system, air pressure system but I don't see something wrong. It is very problematic catch this problem on diagnostics because there are very specific conditions.

Edit...

(02-Feb-2014 01:54 PM)Ginocar Wrote:  Hi Zefek,

You can to take back the default adaptation value with Renault Clip. Ones this method was help my hard start problem on the Renault Thalia 1.5DCI.
Thanks. I will try it and I will write about result. It could be cause of this. But I want to replace connection between engine mass and vehicle body. I think there can be problem so.

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